Hate crime bill looming can be used to silence Christians

I do not think there is a homosexual gene, but I believe there is a tendency for some to turn out that way. It is like someone becoming diabetic. One has the tendency about, it runs in the family, and if one lived where there were a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables and where one did not have to process meat in order for it to keep, even though one had the tendency, one will not become a diabetic.
The same is if someone has the tendency to be homosexual, but one is taught right, kept from temptation, lives a God fearing and moral life, one can quench those tendencies, but now it seems the World wants these tendencies to go full reign and will silence anyone who believes otherwise.

Have you heard of Miss California, who lost the Miss America crown? She was a runner up but she pretty much gave up the crown when she said she believed marriage should be between a man and a woman only. I really admire her for staying true to her beliefs and possibly sacrificing her success to keep her integrity.

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It reminds me of the novel 1984. I read the book and saw the movie. Maybe they should have retitled the novel 2010. It sounds like what is predicted is coming to pass.

People do not have to approve or even agree. People SHOULD just let things be what they are and stop fighting so hard to prevent others from living as they want to. You don't prevent me from living as I want, I won't prevent you from living as you want. Your personal freedom ends where mine begins. It is possible to just mind your own business even if you don't like what's happening around you.

You don't have to 'accept things as normal' but I do think you should not have an issue about it. If you don't agree, don't engage in it. Not agreeing doesn't mean you have the right to tell others they shouldn't or to try to implement laws preventing it, etc.

It seems rather silly to tell someone who does not believe homosexuality is all right to keep their mouths shut. So if someone asks me what do you think about same gender 'marriages' I will not say "I cannot say because if I do the thought police will arrest me," I will say that I am against it. The reason that the homosexuals and lesbians have so much power is because of Christians who were told to keep silent, just practice your faith in your private home or in your church. Do not object and like dumb idiots these Christians said yes.
Ah! but that is what the homosexual lobby wanted and right now they are rubbing their hands with glee, and are now thinking of making it so even a pastor who preaches in his own congregation against sodomy will be arrested. That is what the hate crime is about. It is not about preventing black people from getting justice for not being allowed to buy a house in a nice neighborhood or going after red necks who throw rocks in synagoes, it is to silence opposition to homosexuality.
And you have to make sure it does not work even though it might mean that you would be killed. If enough people object, then the law will not be passed, but if you keep silent, then one day you may find that your neighbor who is a Christian and who was a great help to the people around is no longer there because she will be in prison.

So suspenseful, you are fine with hate crime laws that protect black people from discrimination but not ones that protect homosexuals. Why is that.

It is fine to believe that homosexuals are sinning, and that homosexuality is forbidden by the bible, but why do you feel the need to push this view on others? Can you explain that?

Quick question suspenseful, have you ever eaten pork? Have you ever made any sort of verbal promise? If you are a male do you shave your beard? Used any sort of birth control? Do you have a tattoo? Is any of your clothes blended materials? Ever let a man who has had a vasectomy into church? If you are a woman, have you ever worn gold or perls? Eaten shrimp or lobster? All of these things are more clearly banned by the bible than homosexuality.

The homosexuals want us to approve and glorify their lifestyle. I am sure that black people do not all want us to be black, and I cannot be a black person because my skin is not dark enough even if I went out in the sun all day. I do not think it is right for a pastor to preach on Romans 1 or that verse where Paul the Apostle says "and such were some as you," and have a homosexual decide that because the pastor preached on that subject, that he felt that someone in the congregation or someone listening to the broadcast on Sermon Audio would threaten his life. Yet all you do is to rant and rave. You speak a lot of nonsense about pork, religious customs, and forget that if I went into a strict Muslim home, they would not expect me to cover my face with a veil, or if I had company and one of the people was a Jew, I would not expect the rest of the family to forget about the ham and eat beef instead, I would ask him what he wants and make sure that he eats his Kosher food while the rest of us can eat ham.
But the homosexuals do not want us to object to their lifestyle, they want us to approve and celebrate them.
I will not do it and if it comes to the point where if I saw homosexuality is wrong, and the punishment is death, I will face the executioner.

I feel that way. They just do not want anyone to oppose them.

thats a shame but I do think thereare more christains out there that will open mouthg!

Actually the Church has to obey God rather then man. So if the government makes an immoral law, like they did in Nazi Germany, the Church and all Christians have the right to disobey. So according to this 501(c)(3) designation if there was an equivalent in Germany, that would have meant that the Church had to cooperate with the Nazis in turning the Jews over to the concentration camps.
But I am sure that the government here would order the church to not speak against homosexuality and other aberrations and when it does, there will be people willing to be put in jail and if needs be martyred rather then doing so.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. But this is all assuming that the nation follows current laws.

Well, I suppose you have the right to break the law if you want, but if the laws of your country determine jail time to be the consequence for you deciding to follow 'God's law' rather than man's law, then so be it. I did think that following God's law does in fact include a stipulation about not being in violation of the laws of the country in which you live, nor trying to use God's law as a way to exempt you from following the local laws of where you happen to be. I mean, of course God wants you to be within the law, there are so many things I could say if it were proven to be otherwise....

You have it all wrong. For instance in Nazi Germany there was the law not to hide anyone of the Jewish faith and remember because of the proselytizing that had gone on before Christianity came, that many of the descendants of those proselytized to, that is Germans, etc. were not born from the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi but were Germans who were converted by Jewish Roman soldiers and traders that came up so their descendants did not look Jewish. Yet the authorities knew and those people, the righteous Gentiles who hid their Jewish neighbors paid with their lives.
It is the same nowadays if the law of the land, says. marrying same gender couples to each other and also saying the homosexuality is not a sin, you are to obey God. You are to pay your taxes, but if you must be wiling to obey God's law in matters of morality. And you must not enable a homosexual to live his destructive lifestyle.
So will there come a time when people who protect Christians will also pay with their lives?

There is nothing in the bible that says "And you must not enable a homosexual to live his destructive lifestyle." And the rule for obeying gods law over mans is not worded that way at all, but rather, You shall obey mans law UNLESS it contravenes gods law. And since this law does not contravene biblical law all Christians are obliged to follow it.

That is what I believe. It is not to prevent some Jew or Muslim or Christian being beaten up by some who is not of their faith, nor is it to prevent a gang of rednecks to beat up a black man, or several Native Americans to go after someone who is not of their color, but to silence the Christians.
I suppose that you will preach the message against same gender relationships in spite of the threat of prosecution.

You suppose correctly, and that means you will have to visit me in jail!

That is what one of the members of our congregation said and he was not even a pastor.

If your message is not said in such a way in which it would propagate hate crimes from your congregation members nor for members to go about in the world and judge or attack other people in manners subjected to enforcing consequences set forth by the hate crime bill, then no, you would be fine. As long as people or you did not take the message you presented and incite violence nor hatred against people who disagreed with your message, you're in the clear.

This is meant to keep anybody from consequenceless hate crimes brought about because people have issues with choices other people make. It will protect a Christian against being attacked by an atheist too... but honestly, atheists do not go about telling Christians 'go to hell, you are evil'. I think atheists tend to give the religious a wide berth because you never know what a religious fanatic will do, and that's unfortunate. Be it spewing information you didn't want to calling you a sinner or evil, none of that is okay and people deserve to have a safe environment where that doesn't happen by and large every time you are out in public.

I might "spew unwanted information", depending on who you ask. And it is in public, if you call the house of worship where we assemble each first day of the week. But I never want to incite to hate, in fact quite the opposite.

My concern is that the militant homose*ual community does not seem to be satisfied with asserting that their behavior is immoral. Some have taken to entering churches and disrupting the services. Their insistence on the hate crime bill will become another weapon in the arsenal to destroy opposition to their immorality.

That is what I feel as well. That the radical homosexuals will send spies in to find out if the pastor is preaching something about Sodom and Gomorrah and then when a homosexual is fired from his job for a perfectly good reason like taking too many sick days or not doing his job properly, he will claim he was fired because he was a homosexual and blame the pastor's sermon.

Both sides have their radicals. Do you want Christianity to be judged by the Christian radicals?

Actually the Bible says, "If judgment does not begin at the house of God--" that is in Corinthians. What it means is that Christians have to judge each other. So if it is radical for a Christian to obey the Ten Commandments, and not to commit adultery, abandon the gathering of themselves together, not to have s*x before marriage, not to have s*x with the same gender, not to steal, covet, etc. even if the world and the Christians in name only say it is all right, and even if they are considered radical because no one obeys the Bible anymore, then these radical Christians have the right to judge others in their congregation. And we are also not to stand silent while others sin, but write letters, talk to people, get them to see that they are harming themselves. So in the case of AIDS, or other diseases that are more virulent in the same gender community, would you want one to be quiet about the dangers esp. if one has medical knowledge?
We can say it in a nice way, but it seems we are not allowed to say it in a nice way let alone let that person have it with both barrels. i.e. "You are going to die in pain! and wind up where the fire quenches not!"
Of course, that is usually done by warning the other person and if the other person goes ahead and i.e. cheats, then that person will bring two or three other people to tell him, and when that person says "I am not harming anyone," then they go to the elders and one of them will tell him. After that in our Church there is the announcement minus the name for two times, and finally the name of the offender, then we are told to persuade him that what he is doing is wrong.

The trouble is that it might pass. I know that many say it does not apply to pastors and pastors will not be blamed, but there is always one or two same gender approvers who will want to make an example by blaming the pastor of the local church of inciting a beating of a homosexual because he happened to preach on Romans One that last Sunday.

That idea that unless you are pure and sinless that you have to keep your mouth shut is an attempt to silence the Christians and other religions who object to the homosexual lifestyle.
And it is also increasing the power the homosexuals have over society. So they are using it against us and you are enabling them. There are legal ways that the homosexuals can be sure that their partner gets the money, they can make out a will leaving their goods to so and so, they can enter a business contact. They do not need to go through a 'marriage'
So I am going to continued to write and say that homosexuality is wrong. And I hope there are others just as courageous and more courageous then I am.

Thank you. You are right, it is not for US to judge others, and he or she who is without sin and doesn't live in a glass house can make the first comment or hurl the first stone. The problem here is that NOBODY is without sin (especially if you believe in original sin and all that) and we all live in figurative glass houses. Suspenseful here just doesn't want to accept anything other than the way she views the world, which is that anybody who disagrees with her is wrong 'because God says so'. I think it is pretty funny that people think God told them to be his hand of judgement, God did not do that. God is the final and ONLY hand of authority on that and for any human to take it upon themselves is ludicrous.

One other thing you are forgetting - being with another person is recreational, not purely to make little people. Perhaps a long time ago because there were only thousands of people instead of billions, it was more important to make sure we reproduced, but these days, with all the people getting all upset and wanting to put a limit on numbers of kids (which is another hot button and extremely dangerous) we all have to consider the recreational aspect and the fact that people will love whom they love, nobody else gets to CHOOSE that for another person. When you find a way to force someone to love someone, come back and tell me how you did it. LOL!

but like I said in the first part of my response...it is not for us to judge anyone!!!!!

This is the best part of what you said!

You can read a summary of the bill here, I think there is a link once you get there to read the actual bill:

www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1592&tab=summary

Oh have you heard of Stephen Boisson? http://catholicexchange.c... he wrote an article in a paper denouncing homosexuality and saying it is a sin and that they could be helped, the Alberta Human Rights Commission ordered him to not preach against homosexuality, etc. According to this article, (I am not a
Roman Catholic) the courts are trying to silence those who would oppose homosexuality and if it was not for the media attention in the Christian press, there would have been more cases.
There have been cases for Christian businesses being prosecuted for denying to print material advocating a same gender life style, for refusing to rent rooms for same gender couples that are having s*x with each other. But the reason there is not that many more is because Christians refuse to be silent. If we kept our mouths shut and did not report these things, there would be more going on in Canada,more jail sentences and fines for speaking against homosexuality and other aberrations. For instance if no one had reported those polygamists in B.C. there would be more of that going on.
And Christians have to disobey the government when the rule of the government goes against the rule of God. Since God says that homsexuality is a sin, we have to say that as well even though it may mean a jail sentence.

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Well it says in the Bible that we have to obey God rather then man. And the laws in ancient Rome were just as strict as some of the laws here in Canada. Only there it was not that you have to allow same gender couples to rent rooms in your apartment block, it was that you had to worship the Emperor and in the first case you got fired thousands of dollars and possibly lost your apartment block and in the second case, you lost your life.
The fact do you believe that the State should follow God or should God obey the State. That is the whole crux of the matter.
And as for people being jailed for protesting homosexuality, if they were the media would not report it. Yet if someone beat up a homosexual that would have been all over Canada. And persecution does not come all at once. It happens so slowly that no one notices.
I am the person who thinks of the worse that can happen not "it cannot happen here."
I think this hate crime law is getting a lot of protest down in the States, but I do remember when all of us went to protest the same gender marriage law, there were lots of assemblies, lots of protests, we wrote to our elected representatives, and yet they snuck it in the back door. So if I am a bit of sceptic I have plenty of reason to believe so.

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"Well it says in the Bible that we have to obey God rather then man"
In point of fact, this is not quite correct. What the bible says is that you must obey man's law UNLESS it contravenes god's law. Since this law only prohibits the incitement of violence, something the bible does not order you to do, then you must follow this law, the bible commands you to follow it.

I agree with you, M.... having had a religious past, I do know that 'God's law' does indeed state you should follow the laws set forth by the country or community you live in. Breaking those laws results in breaking the law of God as well.

I remember discussing this in a thread about someone who wanted to use religion or a 'religious reason' to give them an out from following a rule that was imposed on EVERYBODY. When a rule applies to everybody, whether you are a man or a woman, a child or an elderly person, white, orange, green, or pink polkadotted, have brown, blonde, chartreuse or purple hair, etc etc etc, then it shouldn't matter what religion you claim to be either. LOL! Everybody means everybody. Not everybody minus the person-who-wants-an-exception-due-to-religion.

If so, then I can get an exception due to the fact that I have highlighted hair, am heterosexual, have a five year old, and can type 95 wpm. Make an exception for one, you gotta make an exception for all. Without question. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Granted there are people here who will tell you I'm ridiculous, that religious reasons hold more weight than MY reasons stated here, but I do not think they do, nor should they. When they do, that means someone believes religion is more important, and it isn't. It can be individually more important to some people but not forced on EVERYBODY as equally important.

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I am against hating people of different races and religions, but I am against refusing to say that homosexuality is a sin and it is a lifestyle. There is a saying hate the sin, but love the sinner which means that we can like someone who happens to be a lesbian or a homosexual, but it does not mean we have to approve or glorify her or his choice of lifestyle.
That is the trouble. They want us to say that homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle that we have to approve of and if we quote the Bible about what God says about these lifestyle, we might be prosecuted.
So what I am saying, is it right for Christians to say homosexuality is a sin and be thrown in jail? Obviously you think so.

Ah, suspenseful, here we go again. There are people from every country in the world on this forum and you make it sound as if in Canada people who say homosexuality is a sin are thrown in jail. This is simply not true. You and I know that Canada is a democratic country, much more tolerant than some countries, you know that most people are not prejudiced against other races or religions, you also know that each of us can live in peace and practise our religion and life style the way we want to without being oppressed, and so it should be.

I am more concerned with Christians and other religious people getting thrown in jail for saying that the practice of homosexuality is wrong. And I think that it will happen, but no one will know about it because the media would clamp on it. You seem to think that there are thousands of homosexuals and lesbians getting beat up.
So if a pastor preaches Romans One and a lesbian gets beat up because she is a lesbian because someone sat down in the congregation and decided to beat her up, should the pastor go to jail?

No, the person who beat up another person should go to jail.

What is a 'sin' to one may be nothing but a lifestyle to another person. Honestly, if somehow in an alternate universe, it was suddenly a SIN to be heterosexual, guess what? I would HAPPILY EMBRACE IT NO MATTER WHAT, no matter who tried to persecute me and call me wrong. I don't care who thinks I am wrong, a personal opinion cannot be wrong, in fact no OPINION can ever be wrong, plus nobody knows better than yourself how to handle your own life. Notice I didn't say 'no opinion should be unliked'. There are plenty of times when I do not LIKE someone's opinion. Doesn't make it WRONG. Nobody else ever has ANY business whatsover interfering in another person's life, trying to influence how they see things, how they make their choices, etc. Especially not strangers who disagree lol.

I never ask anybody to change their beliefs. I do ask them to keep them to themselves and not frustrate and irritate others by including others in them - like saying 'I think this is a sin so you're sinning'. LOL! That is just ludicrous. Separate yourself. Like I don't smoke but people do. BIG DEAL. I wouldn't spend the money and I wouldn't do that to my lungs but some people will. I don't have an issue with them because they do. It's not a sin. It's probably not healthy. It's an awful lot of money spent on something that doesn't last and could make you sick. But you know what? It doesn't affect ME. It isn't my life. It's theirs. Their choice. Their right. It's not right for ME but maybe it is for THEM. More power to them! I applaud it.

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And once again, you say that people are trying to tell you you cannot believe how you want. You can by all means believe how you want. That does not mean you can prevent other people from a homosexual lifestyle or TRY to prevent them from it by saying hateful things against it or contributing to legislation to ban it. What it means if you believe is that you can YOURSELF choose not to enter into a lifestyle like that. That is the extent of the freedom. Interfering with someone else's choice or ability to enter into whatever lifestyle they want is and should be unlawful and protected against by legislation such as this.