Hate crime bill looming can be used to silence Christians

Actually I don't think there should be laws about it one way or the other, and also don't think anyone should be hated nor discriminated against (nor even stereotyped) including traditionalists. And I definitely don't think the government should be telling anyone what to think or say. Not even if it was in my favor!

If you had someone trying to LEGALLY BAN your lifestyle, you'd be angry about it too. As I see it, nobody is trying to LEGALLY ban the way any Christian wants to live. You live how you see fit. Only, you need to allow others to live how THEY see fit too, even if they differ 180 from YOUR view.

You suppose correctly, and that means you will have to visit me in jail!

That is what I believe. It is not to prevent some Jew or Muslim or Christian being beaten up by some who is not of their faith, nor is it to prevent a gang of rednecks to beat up a black man, or several Native Americans to go after someone who is not of their color, but to silence the Christians. I suppose that you will preach the message against same gender relationships in spite of the threat of prosecution.

That is what one of the members of our congregation said and he was not even a pastor.

Actually the Church has to obey God rather then man. So if the government makes an immoral law, like they did in Nazi Germany, the Church and all Christians have the right to disobey. So according to this 501(c)(3) designation if there was an equivalent in Germany, that would have meant that the Church had to cooperate with the Nazis in turning the Jews over to the concentration camps. But I am sure that the government here would order the church to not speak against homosexuality and other aberrations and when it does, there will be people willing to be put in jail and if needs be martyred rather then doing so.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. But this is all assuming that the nation follows current laws.

Well, I suppose you have the right to break the law if you want, but if the laws of your country determine jail time to be the consequence for you deciding to follow 'God's law' rather than man's law, then so be it. I did think that following God's law does in fact include a stipulation about not being in violation of the laws of the country in which you live, nor trying to use God's law as a way to exempt you from following the local laws of where you happen to be. I mean, of course God wants you to be within the law, there are so many things I could say if it were proven to be otherwise....

I do see your point of view or rather, why you believe what you believe. And I cannot be the one to condemn anything or anyone. That I will leave to God alone. However, I am allowed to disagree with this lifestyle as God tells us to and warns us against this lifestyle (Leviticus 18:22). I'm pretty sure I did not say the Bible states that it's okay to incite violence against them. But I will remind you of Genesis chapter 19. There you will read why God destroyed Sodom and its people. Also found in the book of Jude. But again, the point of this discussion was to ask if this law "could" silence Christians would you still speak out against homosexuality and risk a jail sentence for example. Again, Christians feel the weight of such a law . . . is there a possibility that it could be used against us? We think it could. We have yet to see.

Okay, I'm thinking you would probably continue this without end. It's sounding a bit like you just want to stir things up. For each point you brought up, I'm sure there's another argument which, I will use a little bit of wisdom here, and not get drawn into your debate. Christians around the world are not using homosexuality to incite violence. There's no changing your mind, it is set. Again, the point of this discussion was a simple question . . . would you stand up for your beliefs if the law seemed to be against you? That's it. Love you, my friend. And yes, I fall short of a perfect Christian life. I guess that's why I need a Savior.

I think this must be because many religious (not simply just Christian) folks perceive certain things to be perverse, and because they ALREADY feel this way, they scramble to find any mention of how GOD feels (in the bible) and then they can go about making horrific judgements against whatever it is, whether that be eating a certain type of meat, working on Sunday, or homosexuality. They assume since they can find evidence that God is against or at least not in favor of certain things, it is okay to condemn and preach against other people because 'God said'. LOL! There are SOME Christians who do not go about judging others and interfering in others' lives, but those are the good ones, and based on personal experience, I know hundreds of hypocrites and hardly any good ones. The hypocrites have nearly RUINED the credibility of the good ones, it's kind of sad. These good ones don't go about spouting that everybody who isn't CHRISTIAN is a sinner and that they are wrong or bad or that they don't have the supreme right ot make whatever choices they deem 'right' for themselves. BTW - to the original poster of this section of the thread, I do not think anybody wants to punish just one side for interference. I'm sure the bill is supposed to be designed in order to give 'amnesty' to both parties, making it null and void for either party to interfere with the legal and personal rights of the other. If you don't like what someone else is doing, look the other way. Dont' call them names and harrass them and impose how you feel on them. Just ignore them.

I do not think there is a homosexual gene, but I believe there is a tendency for some to turn out that way. It is like someone becoming diabetic. One has the tendency about, it runs in the family, and if one lived where there were a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables and where one did not have to process meat in order for it to keep, even though one had the tendency, one will not become a diabetic. The same is if someone has the tendency to be homosexual, but one is taught right, kept from temptation, lives a God fearing and moral life, one can quench those tendencies, but now it seems the World wants these tendencies to go full reign and will silence anyone who believes otherwise.

Have you heard of Miss California, who lost the Miss America crown? She was a runner up but she pretty much gave up the crown when she said she believed marriage should be between a man and a woman only. I really admire her for staying true to her beliefs and possibly sacrificing her success to keep her integrity.

More Americans than not (even in California) don't want to change the traditional definition of marriage. But it is being forced upon us, just like everything else the elite considers good for us and case closed (i.e. they're always so right, that it is considered that there just are no arguments to it - if you are for restrictions on terminating the pre-born, even in 8th or 9th month, surely it's because you are against women's rights.. why if you dare to describe the procedure, it's because you hate women.. Do you disagree with any of President Obama's policies, why surely you are racist. Want to preserve your own traditional culture of the nuclear family? Why that means you hate gay folks.. People are free to do whatever they want (even God gave free-will) but why do they need to pass laws saying everyone has to approve... I call it thought police pure and simple.

Ah, suspenseful, here we go again. There are people from every country in the world on this forum and you make it sound as if in Canada people who say homosexuality is a sin are thrown in jail. This is simply not true. You and I know that Canada is a democratic country, much more tolerant than some countries, you know that most people are not prejudiced against other races or religions, you also know that each of us can live in peace and practise our religion and life style the way we want to without being oppressed, and so it should be.

I am against hating people of different races and religions, but I am against refusing to say that homosexuality is a sin and it is a lifestyle. There is a saying hate the sin, but love the sinner which means that we can like someone who happens to be a lesbian or a homosexual, but it does not mean we have to approve or glorify her or his choice of lifestyle. That is the trouble. They want us to say that homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle that we have to approve of and if we quote the Bible about what God says about these lifestyle, we might be prosecuted. So what I am saying, is it right for Christians to say homosexuality is a sin and be thrown in jail? Obviously you think so.

I am more concerned with Christians and other religious people getting thrown in jail for saying that the practice of homosexuality is wrong. And I think that it will happen, but no one will know about it because the media would clamp on it. You seem to think that there are thousands of homosexuals and lesbians getting beat up. So if a pastor preaches Romans One and a lesbian gets beat up because she is a lesbian because someone sat down in the congregation and decided to beat her up, should the pastor go to jail?

thats a shame but I do think thereare more christains out there that will open mouthg!

I feel that way. They just do not want anyone to oppose them.

I think that pastors should not be afraid of saying to someone that their lifestyle is wrong. It is their job to uphold the Bible. And there should be no hate crime legistlation, and no thought crime legistlation. After all, if you hate someone it does not matter if he has pink and purple polka dots, is that guy who was mean to you, if he is straight or homosexual and the punishment should be the same. It seems that it is going to turn out like 1984 and I do not like that.

I find it sad that we NEED hate crime legislation but you know what, if people are getting harrassed or attacked because 'someone's God' told them not to agree with a lifestyle or 'hate the actions and thus go out and prevent people from acting that way', YIKES! Hold up! So perhaps 'God' said something is bad. If you believe it, then YOU refrain from it. If God doesn't want you to eat pork on Sunday, just don't do it! Don't say ANYTHING to other people about it, it doesn't concern them. 5 million other people CAN eat pork on Sunday and if they are fine with it, what's it to you? Same with any other thing you want to insert. Homosexuality or alternate lifestyles. Abortion. Wars and murder (which wars would be intentional manslaughter). *I* don't like war. I do not feel it's necessary. That doesn't mean I'm not proud of our soldiers even though I DISAGREE with the reasons they even learn to do the job and then do it. I wouldn't go up to one of them and say 'hey, I disagree with your job and I wish you wouldn't go do that because it personally offends me and God told me that your actions are wrong so I wanted to pass that on to you'. WTF?! Yeah.... exactly. That's what a lot of religious people do as far as issues like homosexuality and abortion. The problem is, they also go even further with that and DO say things that incite violence, or they spew hate speech toward the 'group' they are lambasting that week, causing OTHERS to get up in arms over NOTHING. Then THOSE people spread it to others, it's like a communicable disease. So yes, even though it is SAD that we have to legislate things to prevent people from becoming animals, better that we do it so there are some legal consequences that may at least make people THINK before they start spouting off judgements against others simply for being different or making different choices.

The trouble is that it might pass. I know that many say it does not apply to pastors and pastors will not be blamed, but there is always one or two same gender approvers who will want to make an example by blaming the pastor of the local church of inciting a beating of a homosexual because he happened to preach on Romans One that last Sunday.