War between US Allies and Iran

Or, the US could stop being so arrogant and touchy because Iran through out the US puppet regime of the Shah. Iran does not trust the US and does not agree with its foreign policy. It does not believe unequivable support to Israel is fair and necessary. It sees the invasion of Iraq as 'double standards' whilst allowing the suffering of Palestinians under occupation to continue, but go for an oil rich province to kick an 'agressor' out.
Iran talks about trade, the US does not play fair, so it trades with China, Russia and othern Eastern countries. Iran has been clever in that it has, unlike other Arab nations, not courted the US for help. For it knows that its fate will be sealed as that of Saddam Hussein.
The reason why Iran hasn't been attacked yet - Afghanistan and Iraq have drained the American will, and unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, there are fewer disloyal commanders who will be bribed and give up intelligence to the CIA. The Americans are struggling to strategically map out Iran for military operations.

But then again, with GWB, he may have found a way to attack and his scale from 1-10 probably was 8. But with Obama it is more like 2 or 3.

And I would argue that the US get rid of its nuclear arsenal as well - for the same reasons as Iran should not have them.

Yeah, when I reread the title, I noticed I should have said, "The US and its Allies". I was trying to include the allies in the equation, since the allies would most likely become part of it sooner or later anyway.

So the US will round up the usual crew, but who do you expect to stand beside Iran? Do you think it will be a case of Muslim states following or keeping their distance from the mullahs.?

That depends on if other Muslim nations consider a nuclear Iran a threat or an asset to their own security. In the end, it comes down to which outcome the leaders of the nations consider best for themselves.

Do you really think the US is the instigator here? Do you consider Iran responsible for any of it?

I think you'll find I said that the US rather than its allies is usually the instigator. I haven't noticed France declaring any wars lately, if they still are an ally. Where did you get the impression I sided with the Mullahs by the way.
I expect that the Saudis will side with the US and friends, need to keep on good terms. What would be your opinion on which way Quatar and the UAE might go?

Sorry for the misread there, Thea.

And most courteous of you to apologise Ted.

I can see that outcome.

What do you think will change in the world with a nuclear Iran?

I see things getting bad in the region. Israel will be freaking out. Which they should. Iran has threatened to wipe them off the map. So I see the big problems betweent the two. Nations will pick sides.
So one of two things will happen....Iran will nuke Israel....who will probly nuke them right back. The rest of the world would watch in horror and the UN might invade Iran over it. But to be honest I think the UN or the US would simple condemn the actions and then do more sactions. Sad but true.

Or Iran will use the fact that it has nukes to make itself taken more seriously in the world.
Iran wants to be a world player and leader. THey think by getting nukes and having the simple threat of using them that it will make them one of big boys on the block.
To me that is what I see from Iran. They want to be a world player and taken seriously. They seem to think nukes is the way to accomplish it. kinda of a "don't mess with me or I will nuke you" kind of thing.

On your scale of 1-10, I would say a definite 10.

With respect, Iran does not 'mock' the world but a couple of victors of WWII who enjoy permanent membership of the UN. Iran only speaks of truths which the US and her allies are reluctant to hear and the very notion that Iran can consider standing up for its values is seen by the US as bigotry.

As you rightly point out, China and Russia do not see American foreign stance in the same light and are strong trading partners. And Iran knows it is the last survivor of the Arab world which American imperialism has not controlled. Iraq dared to challenge the West, look at its fate. The Saudi's are in American pockets as are Jordan and Egypt. Syria does not acknowledge Israel largely because it wants the Golan heights back and is called by GWB an 'axis of evil'. Go figure.

It is those who stand up to the West which are threatened by the West.

The treatment of its own people is becoming transparent. Iran is also being threatened within itself. Victims will only sit by for so long before they begin to fight back. Eyes are being opened.

Makro:

Oh Yes, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is the picture of international love and friendship.

Something tells me that you'll cheer and praise him if he nukes Israel.

I bet you would have even gladly turned the gas on at Dachau.

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That was for Marko right?

Ted,
No, my only point is that the world needs to have more of a perspective other than that of the US and her allies. I would rather no country has nukes, and I am extremely fearful that Israel has them.

But I am not against any people, but I am against fabrications and untruths to bring a nation down. Iran only expresses it opinion against the West, the West does not like it.

And people always forget - when the US developed and USED the bomb twice, it developed well over more powerful, 3000 versions of them. As they created the UN, the five permanent members were allowed to 'arms race' this technology, and then developed a non-profileration treaty which excludes other nations but allows them to keep theirs! How fair is that? Non-profileration is the way, but the US and Russia should go alot further in reduction to pressurise others. And why is the UK insisting on renewing its nuclear deterrant when the Soviet threat has gone, and it cannot really afford it.

From Iran's perspective, it talks of many injustices and malpractices which the West is too arrogant to pay lipservice. But, as I have said, the country Iran is a prosperous one - not the conservative nation as portayed. It has all of the modern shops, women are free to work and more university graduates are women than men. They are thriving with beuaticians, parlours, and fashion malls. All this from a country supressed! Of course, Iran has its problems, as the US has. But Iran does not have nearly as many on 'death row' as the Americans have. Crime rates are much lower and there is far more civility.

Ahmedinijad, is not perfect, and has political opinions - but what annoys me is that he will say many things in a grand context - yet the propaganda always takes out 'wipe out Israel from the map' and 'holocaust does not exist' and 'nuclear energy' interpretated as 'nuclear bombs'. If he says, 'I have sympathy for what happened in Germany.... i think, Europe should have found a place for the European jews because it was their problem...why should Palestine suffer because of this European problem..... ' Ahmadinajad has been misquoted so many times, it is silly.

For example, Iran captures British personnel in the Gulf for straying in Iranian waters. Unbelievable, the amount of irresponsible language and desparation from both the British and American governments. George Bush immediately called them 'hostages'. But the Iranians were wrongfooting them all the time. After thier investigations, they found that there was evidence of spying and maybe a possible error by the Iranians they played the British very cleverly. They stoked up British and American governments by simply sticking to their story. By the day of their release, no body was expecting Iran to release them. And I remember listening to hourly radio news reports on that day. When Ahmadinajad opened his speech, the news was headed by 'ahmadinijad has used his statment to attack the West with rhetoric about the nations against Iran' - an hour later the same newscaster 'in a suprise move the president of Iran has set free the soldiers in 'gesture of good will to the British'.

And to top all the propoganda of propagandas - the soldiers were seen on video and pictures, with no sign of torture or degrading abuse. These soldiers were seen and heard on many occasion with no sign of coercion that they were fed and treated very well. They were shaking the Iranians hands very freely and no forced smiles. And they were waving individually and naturally to the Iranians as they were leaving. So they get on plane head back to Britain. THey touch down, and even the press are not breifed on arrival, they are hurried to a military base to be DEBRIEFED. And then when they finally come out and talk to the press, their faces are glum and is if the British have abused them in some way. Then their stories came out that they were not treated good and proper. They were allowed to sell to press, which when the British saw the inconsitencies pulled the gagging order. But the soldiers know they were telling what they were told to say and they were not at all comfortable, unlike the comfortable manner which they spoke with Iranians present.

So it is free thinking speeches, and differing perspectives which I am more interested in, not the 2D thinking of Americans who are largely biased to keep their imperial intergrity, which day by day is losing its grip. I am not necessarily a fan of the Iranian regime, but I certainly do not think it is nowhere near a threat to world peace and security as Bush and Blair were. But I also feel Israel is a massive threat.

So as the saying goes 'peopel in glass houses should not throw stones'

I bet you cheered on 9/11.

No Ted, I reserve that for your low mentality

The common assumption is that the US military is overstretched, and there is some truth to that. However, nothing we have done since WWII has come close to throwing the resources of the US at a war effort.

So if Iran nuked Israel, you'd be just fine with that?

Remember, the stated goal of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad IS to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

To allow them to gain nukes is to allow them to achieve that goal.

I am not fine with ANYONE using nuclear weapons. In fact, I don't think anyone should have them. But the fact is that we do have them: lots of them. Iran isn't going to nuke Israel. They know that if they do they'll certainly be destroyed by the US. They just want to be on the same playing field.

Murderistic, I am not worried about Iran nuking anyone, I am worried about them GIVING a nuke to someone who WILL use it, probably on US.

So why do they say they will blow Israel off the map?

Of course we are worried that they're going to be used against us or against someone else. But I'm even more worried that the US will use OUR nuclear weapons against another nation, because let's face it, we've done it before. The fact is that Iran is worried all the same. So the question is, can you BLAME them for wanting nuclear weapons? Can you really demonize them for trying?

As for wiping Israel off the map, that was a statement said out of absolute anger and desperation in the situation in the Holy Land. I'm sure there are many people who would like to wipe Israel off of the map, because Israel is as we speak wiping Palestine off of the map more and more every day. The real question is - would Ahmadinejad actually live up to that claim? Of course not. If he really was going to wipe Israel off of the map, he would already have declared war with them. The truth is that although he may be a hate monger, Ahmadinejad is not a moron. Israel is backed by the US, a country who spends more on military than any country in the world, in fact, the US spending on military is equal to the following 12 countries on the spectrum combined. The US has over 2,000 strategic warheads. Against another nation we are practically invincible. Only terrorists who wish death upon themselves are crazy enough to attack us or our BFF Israel.

Murderistic, the only way we'll nuke Iran is if that idiot hatemonger in charge their decides to make good on his promise.

What do you think the world should do if Iran does nuke Israel? Sit around a campfire wishing it never happened?

What would Jesus do, Ted?

Cop out answer.

I'm asking you what you think should be done if Iran nukes Israel.

Ted,

Ahmadijinidad spoke of Israel and its menace in the region, he went on to say the problems and suffering by the creation of the State of Israel. It is in this context, a metaphorical context, that he said that Israel SHOULD be wiped off the map ie when maps are drawn it should not be Israel but Palestine within which Jews can live peacefully.

Unfortunately, Western commentators, Tony Blair and the like, used this speech for propaganda purposes. A line 'Israel should be wiped off the map' taken completely out of context of his speech and linking with the completley separate issue of nuclear technology which Iran is seeking. IF WE RECALL AHMADINIJAD ALSO SAID THAT IRAN HAS NO INTENTION OF BUILDING A BOMB. But the West do not believe him.

Nuclear weapons are well over 2500 in US arsenal and Israel possesses over 200 of them. Muderistic is right about the US using them and can use them again. And the US is hypcrocritical if it denies others. This true in part as muderistic points out, but also because majority world populations outside the US and Europe regard ISRAEL as a rogue terrorist state defying UN resolutions and acting as a loose cannon in the name of 'self defence'. Yet it possesses nuclear weapons, not questioned by the US, and not pressed via the non-profileration treaty to either reduce or eliminate its arsenal. Instead we get 'plausible deniability' - a situation where denial is the key by Israel, and no UN inpectors or checks on Israel's facilities. Therefore, it is false propaganda against Iran and double standards. And this is exactly what Iran has been talking about since 1979.

Incidentally, in the world revolving around 24hr news coverage, more and more of the world's population is lining up against Israel and US foreign policy, this why it is worrying the ISRAEL possesses NUkes

Ted, it's not a cop out answer. You asked what I think we should do. We should do what Jesus would do. As a Christian, you should have at least some idea as to how Jesus would respond to that, shouldn't you?

I think that Jesus would have gone to Iran, lived with the people, learned their language and culture, and worked to change their hearts. I think that he would have started peace movements. I think that he would beg US officials not to kill millions of innocent Iranians who had nothing to do with the attack. Perhaps He would have wanted those responsible arrested and detained (but still treated fairly). He certainly would never kill someone or put them to death. Humans are always trying to take the place of God in judging others in life and death issues. It's seriously not our job.

This is the same Jehovah who ordered the Israelites to kill everyone in the land of Canaan, right?

Ted, what exactly about Markos post would cause you to accuse him of being a terrorist?

Um, could you please give me the verse that you are referring to? I'm pretty sure that JESUS didn't say that.

Jesus has taught peace, but also war. He is willing to use either to bring about His Gospel. I'm not saying war with Iran is the only option, personally, I hope it doesn't come to that at all. I sincerely hope that Iran's aggression towards Israel can be tempered before it's too late. I also hope that Israel doens't do something rash and attack in a "pre-emptive" manner.

We have two groups who are sworn enemies, they cannot accept the fact that the other exists. The Arabs say that Israel is their home land, but they have an entire region to call home. They resent the little strip of land that Israel calls their homeland. Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for anyone who doesn't acknowledge any rights whatsoever for anyone but their pathetic, selfish, murderous selves.

Arab nations should just let Israel alone, and vice versa.

"Jesus has taught peace, but also war. He is willing to use either to bring about His Gospel."
Wow, that's news to me. Could you please show me scriptures to back this claim? I recognize that before God came to earth as man, war was acceptable and even necessary in the eyes of God. But when He became one of us, all that changed.

"We have two groups who are sworn enemies, they cannot accept the fact that the other exists. The Arabs say that Israel is their home land, but they have an entire region to call home. They resent the little strip of land that Israel calls their homeland. Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for anyone who doesn't acknowledge any rights whatsoever for anyone but their pathetic, selfish, murderous selves.

Arab nations should just let Israel alone, and vice versa."
Not quite sure how this is relevant, but if you want to debate it, I'll respond to this. To suggest that the entirty of both Israelis and Palestinians cannot accept that each other exist is very discriminatory toward both sides. I'm not so sure that Palestine is considered a "home land" to "the Arabs", although it is a place of religious signifigance and a home to many Arabs. "They" have a lot more to resent than the "little strip of land that Israel calls their homeland." Your naiive generalizations shows that you either lack the knowledge or interest to debate such a topic. No one asked you to feel sorry for selfish murderers. But shouldn't you feel some sort of emotion to the peaceful Palestinians who are just trying to live their lives and get by without their homes being demolished, trash being thrown into their yard or shop daily, being taunted and beaten by soldiers and settlers for no reason, being arrested and beaten for peaceful protests... I could go on, but I honestly am not sure how much you care.

Obviously you care less than you think I do. Sorry to bother you. I know leave you to hide back into your myopic little world.

I pity your ignorance and bigotry.

btw, you are not a pacifist, you are merely a little girl hiding from the world, using "pacifism" as a pacifier.

Ted, you are the one claiming that Jesus is okay with us killing each other without actually backing your claims with scripture. I'm the one saying He's not, and His entire life and death is evidence of that, on top of the many scriptures telling us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek. And I'M the bigot? You use harsh generalizations toward Iran, Palestinians, and even a poster on here (like you have enough evidence to call him a terrorist for his beliefs), and I'M the ignorant one?

I don't know why you of all people would suggest that I'm "hiding from the world," ou post on here a heck of a lot more than I do. And I've dedicated my life to helping the world any way that I can. So if your intent was to insult me, you should at least try to find something that isn't a lie and hypocritical to insult me with.

Exodus 15: 3 The Lord is a man of awar: the Lord is his bname

Numbers 1:1-3: 1 And the Lord spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the csecond year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying,
2 Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls;
3 From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

Numbers 1:19 As the Lord commanded Moses, so he anumbered them in the wilderness of Sinai.

Numbers 2: 3-7
3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.
4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.



5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

Numbers 3:21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses;

1 Chronicles 12: 23 And these are the numbers of the bands that were ready armed to the war, and came to aDavid to Hebron, to turn the kingdom of Saul to him, according to the word of the Lord.

Numbers 32:20 And Moses said unto them, If ye will ado this thing, if ye will go armed before the Lord to war,
• • •
Numbers 32:27 But thy servants will pass over, every man armed for war, before the Lord to battle, as my lord saith.

Deuteronomy 20: 1 When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the Lord thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
2 And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people.
3 And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;
4 For the Lord your God is he that goeth with you, to afight for you against your enemies, to save you.

Joshua 8:1 And the Lord said unto Joshua, Fear not, neither be thou dismayed: take all the people of war with thee, and arise, go up to Ai: see, I have given into thy hand the king of Ai, and his people, and his city, and his land:

Joshua 11: 23 So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the Lord said unto Moses; and Joshua gave it for an inheritance unto Israel according to their divisions by their tribes. And the land rested from war.

Judges 3: 1 Now these are the nations which the Lord left, to prove Israel by them, even as many of Israel as had not known all the wars of Canaan;
2 Only that the generations of the children of Israel might know, to teach them war, at the least such as before knew nothing thereof;

Revelation 12: 7 And there was awar in heaven: bMichael and his cangels fought against the dragon; and the ddragon fought and his angels,

: http://scriptures.lds.org...

Ted,
If you think my post amounts to terrorism, then I think you have problems, deep psychological ones. Unfortanately, it is people like you, the so called 'hawks' that gave GWB 'madman' with WMD image on the world stage.
What you psychi is incapable of understanding is that you are talking of on sided biased arguments, where there is a small thing called the other side which arrogance does not allow you to reach. Therefore, you cannot fathom peaceful negotiation and a reason for the 'other side' to behave as it does. Therefore, you inevitably opt for war and sit behind this website while your troops are sent in danger in killing spree to kill or be killed.
Therefore your attitude can be regarded as cowardice, as you yourself will not send any of your children or yourself on the plane to Iran and consider the implications if war was fought. Nor would you understand the plight of millions of Iranians whose country would be bombed, because you know you won't be there!
In my book that is the true terror, and you would support it would make you a...... na I am not going to sink that low!

Ted, I have already acknowledged that war was mandated by God in the Old Testament. But Ted, I'm not Jewish. I'm talking about what defines us as CHRISTIANS. And your verses about spiritual warfare are not applicable to physical war on earth. I never denied that there was a spiritual warfare that all Christians are a part of that will surmount in the end times.

Furthermore, I'd like to say that I removed you from my friends list and I'm not going to be responding to any more of your discussions or comments (I sent this as a message but I don't think it sent after I removed you from my friends). It has nothing to do with your personal beliefs, but your insults are very immature and honestly, I'm not going to waste my emotional energy responding to them anymore.

If you discount the Old Testament as the word of God, how can you say you believe in the Bible?

Apparently with the next generation "bunker buster" being declassified, I'm sure their are plans in that direction. However, we might hit Iran with a bombing mission and Special Ops follow on operation, but what would stop the Muslim nations from joining in on a retaliation?

I don't think any nation can start anything without starting everything.

They are retaliating anyway. It is only thanks to better intel that we are discovering suicide bomb plots all the time.

Nothing will stop religious fanatics other than infiltrating their organisations.

We were sadly lacking in that area in the past but we are getting much better at it now.

The one thing fanatics love to do is to crow about how fanatical they are!

Iraq might not be of much help with direct military support, but being able to stage in Iraq would be far greater help.