Palin's quicky elopment

@spalladino (17924)
United States
September 13, 2008 11:45pm CST
My husband and I are staying up late, watching a CNN special on Sarah Palin, followed by one on Joe Biden, in our continuing effort to learn more about the candidates. They mentioned that Sarah and Todd unexpectedly eloped on August 29, 1988. No one in either family was informed, they went to the courthouse and, because they needed witnesses, they grabbed two old folks from the Retirement Home across the street. Less than 8 months later, on April 20, 1989, their son Track was born. I have verified these dates. I look for answers and I find more questions. The dates indicate that Sarah was approximately 4 weeks pregnant when she and Todd quickly eloped. So, apparently, she didn't hold herself to the same standard of abstinence as she expects from everyone else. Some may call this mudslinging or nit picking, say it has nothing to do with her ability to be the V.P., but it seems to me that her own behavior is very hypocritical. Where were those Christian family values before she was married?
13 people like this
29 responses
• United States
14 Sep 08
We are all human. That Gov. Palin and her husband started their family a little early does not bother me in the least.
4 people like this
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Normally it wouldn't bother me either, but when it involves someone who is in a position of possibly having legislative power over the entire nation and has already shown a very narrow minded view of birth control limited to abstinence only, as I said in my original post, it brings more questions to mind. I'm not a fan of rigidity in the first place and learning that she did not practice what she would like to impose upon others disturbs me.
5 people like this
• Lubbock, Texas
14 Sep 08
When we do things that we realize were mistakes, most of us want to keep others from making the same mistake. I'm sure the Christian values were taught in her home, but how many young people do you know who ALWAYS abide by those values. It doesn't make them a hypocrite to confirm that those traditional values need to be held onto. It shows that they realize to not uphold them is a mistake.
2 people like this
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Seems to me that the logical response to "oops, abstinence didn't work" would be to accept that protection is a necessary option in order to compensate for our weaknesses. I have no problem with the importance of traditional vlaues, thebeaddoodler, or the need to hold onto and reinforce them but, I agree, how many young people abide by them? Why dumb down our youth and take away essential services because their use doesn't fit the doctrine of the person in charge? Many of us with traditional families, such as myself, want our children and teenagers informed, aware and protected.
2 people like this
@bobmnu (8160)
• United States
14 Sep 08
If that is a reason not to vote for her what about a lawyer who won't follow the law and when caught avoids the penalty. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/03/08/obama_paid_late_parking_tickets/ Or a lawyer who copies some one else's work and tries to pass it off as his own? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3DB143FF93BA2575AC0A961948260 By choosing to get married she is showing her family values (not getting an Abortion) and by remaining married is true family values. Again how many people will be so what it could have been me.
2 people like this
@Taskr36 (13924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Ok, now those articles are freaking hilarious. Ordinarily if you posted them I'd call it petty, but in this thread I think it's perfectly appropriate. Well done Bob!
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Thanks for the links, bob, but I don't see parking tickets and plagiarism as possible legislative issues that could effect millions of Americans. I agree that marrying and staying together are honorable things, however, I don't agree that someone should be in a position to force legislation on others based on values that she didn't follow herself.
1 person likes this
@soccermom (3200)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Not to mention that the bill was redundant becasue there is already a law on the books that says any infant born alive gets necesaary medical attention to save it's life. The bill was a sneaky way for the pro lifers to get a piece of legislation passed that would spark a debate about overturning Roe v. Wade.
@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I read about their wedding a few weeks ago but I could never find a birth date on the oldest child so I just gave up. I don't think it's nit picking if the "right" are still believing that Obama is a "closet Muslim".
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Last night was the first I had heard about the elopment and I'm sure CNN had their information right since Sarah and several members of her family were involved in the project. It would be completely unprofessional and possibly slanderous to say that they had their first child less than 8 months later if it had actually been a year and 8 months later. Whether Obama is a closet Muslim or not (and if he is he's breaking all kinds of religious laws daily) he doesn't have a legislative history in the area of religion that Palin has, and wants to have, in the area of what birth control informaion and options are available to America's young people.
@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I totally agree but I am sick of getting attacked for pointing out the "writing on the wall" . It seems that the Conservatives are the ones saying that Obama followers are following blindly yet every fact that is pointed out about Palin they blame Liberal media bias, even when the words are spewed from her own mouth.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I hear ya, Zeph!
1 person likes this
@soccermom (3200)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Here's my problem with the situation spall, and I do find it hypocritical that she was pregnant before she was married, but how come they grabbed to people froma retirement home to be thir witnesses? Why didn't they tell their parents they were getting married? Or did they? My husband and I got married at the courthouse, mostly because I had a big wedding with my "starter husband" and didn't want to go through that again, but also because we have kids together alreafy and thought a big ceremony was irrelevant, the point was that after living together for 6 years it was time. However, our parents were there. I don't understand why, regardless of where the ceremony is, your parents wouldn't be there, short of them being deceased. Unless of course they had issues with the marriage to begin with. I don't think this is mudslinging or nitpicking, I think this is part of the process of getting to know our candidates.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
No, soccermom, they didn't tell anyone in either family beforehand and, according to the family, they considered Todd a great guy and had no problems with him dating Sarah. Palin's father was interviewed about the elopement and he related that they were all shocked when they learned that Todd and Sarah had eloped. Like you, I also find it telling that they kept it such a secret beforehand considering that they are such a close, loving family. The reasoning that they wanted to save the family the expense of a large wedding has a very hollow ring to it when everyone in the famiy was left out of the event itself. Sarah's parents certainly could have been there and so could the sister she's closest to and a little get together at someone's home afterwards could have been planned to celebrate the specialness of the day. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for these could haves but rushing to the courthouse like that without even bothering to bring two witnesses and having two complete strangers stand up for you instead of making a couple of phone calls screams of attempting to cover the fact that Sarah was pregnant.
1 person likes this
@Barb42 (4216)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I have yet to figure out what's wrong in eloping and not telling anyone. Usually, that's what elopement is all about - done in secret. My husband and I got married at the Court House. We didn't call that eloping. Our parents knew about it, but nobody went with us because we didn't ask them. His parents were old, and mine were working. We had only the Judge and his secretary as our witnesses. And by the way, everyone watched our marriage to, thinking I had to be pregnant. Surprise! We didn't have our baby until 4 years later.
@soccermom (3200)
• United States
15 Sep 08
That's exactly what got me spall, they liked Todd, probably would've been happy they were getting married, and if you have such a close, loving family, it would be important to be there regardless of where the ceremony was actually held. Half the time I don't even get along with my parents, but they wanted to be there. Perception is reality, and the perseption is that she was hiding the fact that she didn't practicing what she is preaching.
@kerriannc (4280)
• Jamaica
14 Sep 08
My God spalladino, this is the reason that God is so different from us humans. What does this has to do with her ambition. She has proven herself to be a good worker in the eyes of the public. Everyone makes mistakes and it was good that they both make the decision to become parents for the child. Please to judge her according to her public life works and not what she has done during her teenage life. Is it is good that she saw they did something wrong and does not want to encourage other persons at that age to do the same. Remember that things and time as change. You all are judging and you should remember that the bible says leave all judgement to God. Even if you praise Goddess, you should leave it to her too.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Sep 08
You are an understanding human. Good for you for your thoughts on this. It's my sentiments exactly.
@KrauseHome (35514)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Well, to me, if she is claiming a standard of Abstinence, and expecting everyone to do so, then this is a double standard. Plus her oldest daughter is pregnant, and now since her being chosen as Vice President elect they say is Engaged, isn't this double standards as well? To me after reading all of these things, I see them continue to judge Obama to no end, but no one never is allowed to talk about these things? I guess it up to us the American people to Pray about it, and continue to watch and see who is the best choice for us all. Just my thoughts.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I agree, KrauseHome, it is a double standard...and a bad one. It's a shame that not only do we have to focus on things like the economy, energy, foreign relations and the war, we also have to worry about the possibility of losing some of our rights over our own bodies and protecting our children.
• United States
14 Sep 08
Its funny when Palin or her family makes a mistake then she's human and everyone makes a mistake. When the little Spears got pregnant the gloves came off she was called every name in the book. Also I have massive with the fact she is against giving any assistance to single teen mothers when her daughter is one and I am sure they are going to help her out. Not everyone has families that will be there for them or young men that will step up to the plate and do the honorable thing. you would think she would be more understanding considering that she and her daughter have made similiar mistakes! I myself have human values and compassion for others I am not judging her or her family but for someone that lives in a glass house she sure throws a lot of rocks at others!
@rocketj1 (6960)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Oh, I'm sorry. I must have missed Sarah Palin bad-mouthing Spears. Oh wait, it must have been on one of those Ultra right-wing shows like Entertainment tonight.
• United States
15 Sep 08
well, i never said she bad mouth speared I am talking conservatives in general! They have different sets of standards for people. My issue is she has voted against bills to help young unwed mothers. Why, when she has been there only she had the support of the man the impregnanted her but she could easily been in the same situation as a unwed mother who didn't have any help from family and friends.
1 person likes this
@alindahaw (1219)
• Philippines
15 Sep 08
Did she throw rocks at others? I did not hear her attack Britney or her sister. And yeah, the last time I heard is that Sarah Palin is running for vice president and not trying to win the grammy award or performing on the MTV awards. Did she suddenly became a good singer too? This is getting more interesting by the minute.
2 people like this
@rocketj1 (6960)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I wonder how upset you'd be if she did the non-Christian thing and had an abortion. Would that even register on your radar screen? She married the man and is married to him still. You sound like an old lady at the beauty shop gossiping.
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
15 Sep 08
You are aware I hope than when you resort to posting nothing but insults it's a clear indication that you have nothing of any substance to contribute to the discussion. Slam away, rocket. It's obvious that you're unable to understand what the grown ups are talking about.
@rocketj1 (6960)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Sitting down and calculating the birthdate of a child in relation to the marriage date of the parents is a well known passtime of old biddies the world over. If you don't want to sound that way then you'll have to figure something out, not me. Why does this matter to you so much? Christians have NEVER claimed to be perfect. Are you? Having morals doesn't mean that you are perfect, only trying to do your best. And yes, often failing.
@rocketj1 (6960)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Note: I am not calling you one. I'm saying you sound like one. And if you would take the time to think about it (you seem very intelligent) you would too.
@Hatley (164471)
• Garden Grove, California
14 Sep 08
sp alladino since when is eloping against those so called christian values? Lots of people elope rather than spend ten thousand dollars on a wedding then get divorced two years later. And even if she was pregnant that doesnt mean she is a horrible person. I do not particularly like her views but am so tired of this thing of treating candidates like some kind of Gods who are supposed to be lily white and never have committed any sin in their lives even to just dropping some litter on the ground.Candidates are human beings and capable of making boo boos just like you or I.I would not vote for her as I vote democratic but hate to see people malign for every teensy fault known to mankind.How do you know what sort of family values she came from?
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Hatley, you've either completely missed my concerns in this discussion or are intentionally ignoring them. My problem is NOT with Palin eloping and is NOT with her or anyone else's family values. I don't expect her to be a God, or lily white, but I do take issue with her rigid abstinence only opinion on birth control which has not worked, definitely once and maybe twice, in her own family. I have a serious concern about electing someone into a powerful position of leadership who will try her best to push through legislation that will affect the youth of this country, including my grandchildren eventually, and who turns a blind eye to what is in their best interest because it doesn't match her clearly flawed ideals of what acceptable family planning consists of. Keeping our children ignorant and without essential services to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs does harm to them. If abstinence has not worked repeatedly in your own family and you continue to promote it as the only option for others, you either don't give a damn about their welfare or you're not too bright.
• United States
14 Sep 08
Agree, and by the way pregnancy's last 40 weeks so Trig was VERY early!
@rocketj1 (6960)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Trig is her Youngest child.
@N4life (851)
• United States
14 Sep 08
There is a "nice" article on MSNBC today as to how Palin conducts herself http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/266691018/page/4 Much of the info comes straight from her fellow Alaskans. Book banning, hiring a Sec of Ag who loved cows as a kid? Vote for her, please so we can all continue to be the biggest suckers in the world.
@N4life (851)
• United States
14 Sep 08
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26691018/page/4/
@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Thanks so much for the link N4life!
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
That was pretty disturbing. I read that the reason it was necessary to subpeona Todd Palin and the others was because, although Gov. Palin had publically stated that her staff would cooperate with the Alaska Legislature's investigation, they were refusing to meet with them.
• United States
15 Sep 08
I don't see anything wrong with your statistical dates. I have two children neither of which I carried full term. You can't just assume she had s ex before she married unless she comes out and says she did. With that kind of timing, she could have delivered early you are talking about a month or less. I have heard but don't hold me to it, they eloped because they didn't want to spend the money on a wedding. I saw that in an interview so where.
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
15 Sep 08
I saw that, too, and I would really like her to address the questions that the whole elopement issue put in the minds of quite a few more people than me. Questions like, why didn't they ask even one friend or family member to stand up for them? Why not make a couple of phone calls instead of grabbing two strangers from the retirement home? Was Track early? And, if she was pregnant when she and Todd married why does she still hold on to the notion that abstinence is the *only* acceptable form of birth control to be taught in schools? Lots of questions and no answers.
• United States
17 Sep 08
I see where you are coming from but I am not sure about the relationship to her political position. When she was 18 she could have felt one way and changed her mind. I hope for everyone's sake that you will not hold against me things I have done in my past but now have strong feelings about since I have grown up. I think there are more important points of view to discuss towards her political position than this one.
@banadux (630)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Sounds to me like you are trying to say she is a hypocrite from making a mistake early in her life. You are not watching the specials to find information on the candidates you are watching them to find ways to condemn the candidates you already don't like. Did you ever think that maybe she gained her values after making mistakes and learning?
@rocketj1 (6960)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Well said! Amen.:)
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
15 Sep 08
You should get your hearing along with your eyes checked. I'm saying that she's a hypocrite for promoting abstinence *only* education on the youth of this country when she's known for 20 years that it does not work. It's also nice that you believe yourself to be psychic but, no, I don't stay up until 1:00 in the morning looking for "gotchas"! My husband and I wanted to see the Special on Joe Biden, too, but we couldn't hang any longer. But, if you want to believe that a 60 year old man and his wife stayed up late for that reason, help yourself. By the way, the lesson she should have learned is that, if you're going to be sexually active, you should be protected...not only from pregnancy but from STD's as well.
@underdogtoo (9599)
• Philippines
14 Sep 08
I guess the old adage, "the truth shall set you free" is right after all. Nothing stays hidden these days because of investigative reporting and the Internet. It could be used for good or for bad purposes. Anyway, it would be good to know a lot of things about your candidates.
@rocketj1 (6960)
• United States
15 Sep 08
You don't mean that the truth set her free do you? That's a Biblical quote about God's truth freeing people from their sin. Possibly you meant "Your sin shall find you out". It did, and she didn't cover her sin (abortion). She AND HER HUSBAND chose to accept the consequences and got married.
1 person likes this
• Philippines
15 Sep 08
I did not mean Palin. I don't care for what she has done. I am not here to judge her or other candidates. I mean everyone who has learned the truth, that their ignorance has been eliminated because of the information available. It is up to them to decide how the truth sets them free. They could condemn and recriminate or they could go deeper into their souls and find something positive.
@Amberina (1541)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Isn't Track a newborn? Or am I thinking of another one of her kids? I haven't been following this story all that close I have just been half listening so I could be wrong on the name of her baby.
14 Sep 08
Track is the first one. The last one, I think, is Trig, or something like that.
@Amberina (1541)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Ah ok unusual names....I wonder how she came up with them? What's the story behind the names.
@Ithink (10495)
• United States
14 Sep 08
This is almost funny as I discovered this about 3 days ago while reading and investigating the candidates and was going to start a discussion here. I also said the same as you but for a different reason as she states the reason they eloped was so they wouldnt have to spend money on a wedding, obviously I didnt buy that and went searching and found her sons birthday on his police record. I thought hmmm okay but why lie about the reason. If she is suppose to be so religious come clean and suck it up. I guess my take on this is everyone makes mistakes BUT dont lie about things as sooner or later it is going to unravel in your face.
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I agree, covering something up is never a good idea. I also agree that everyone makes mistakes but, in the case of abstinence, if you have to deal with the reality that it doesn't work because you couldn't live up to it yourself, don't try to force it upon others.
@Ithink (10495)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Oh I totally agree, about the abstinence issue, as it obviously didnt work for her OR her daughter that she has raised in her home under those assumptions that it does work. I dont feel anyone should put their personal ideals onto anyone else. IF they come into office I really feel we are all in for one heck of a ride as she tries to put her idealistic family plans and personal feelings onto everyone else from the power she will feel she has. As she has obviously done in the past with being Mayor and Governor.
@Ldyjarhead (10157)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I don't think it hypocritical at all. I've done a LOT of things in years past (and when I was an adult, a lot older than 18!) that I wouldn't condone anyone doing, no matter their age. I would now counsel others against behaviors such as what I've done. Does that make me a hypocrite? Absolutely not. If I were STILL doing those things and hiding it, that would make me hypocritical. Someone that smokes trying to get someone else to quit would be hypocritical. Someone claiming that adultery is while carrying on in an extramarital affair is hypocritical. Conceiving a child before marriage some 20+ years ago doesn't make her a hypocrite today. It makes her human ...
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
So have I, ldyjarhead, but I wouldn't even consider trying to pass legislation that forced abstinence only education upon young people when I knew from personal experience that it does not work. That is hypocritical. I actually don't agree with taking away knowledge...with the concept of dumbing down our young people in an attempt to force them to live their lives according to someone else's values. It gets worse when the person promoting these values so strongly didn't live up to them herself and seems to have attempted to cover up that fact. She knew it would eventuallly come out and probably should have addressed it but then she would have to admit that abstinence does not work and I don't see her as someone who admits that they're wrong. If it wasn't for the abstinence issue I really wouldn't care if she and Todd had married when Track was 2 years old.
@irishidid (8734)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I looked but could not find anything non-partisan on the abstinence issue. Until I do, I'll hold my opinion. Ldy, I agree with you. Lots of things I have done in my past that I tell my kids not to do. I don't consider that being a hypocrite.
@Uroborus (910)
• Canada
15 Sep 08
I am no supporter of Palin, but I don't think it's necessarily being hypocritical if someone changes what they believe after 20 years. If she eloped now, and said the things she did now, then it would be hypocritical. Having said that, I don't think its appropriate for her to preach to others about this sort of thing, not because I feel she is being hypocritical, but because I think it is obnoxious of her to do so.
@ladygator (3469)
• United States
15 Sep 08
I see it that way to. I dont necessarily support her but that really doesnt decribe her character today.
@suspenseful (40316)
• Canada
14 Sep 08
If she confessed her sin to the Church, and to God, then she is forgiven for that sin. Oh by the way, sometimes what sins we do are not forgiven, not by God, but by people. So obviously if you had known me and known my real name, and I had told you that I slept with someone before I married and I am now a Christian, you would not have forgiven me either and people who do not forgive will not pray for the ones they do not forgive. I would rather have a man as a vice president for the United States and it is a shame that those feminist pro abortions, we are better than man and we believe in same gender unions have made it so the McCain had to choose Palin to counter act their vile. So the question is did she tell her daughter, "I slept with your father before we were married, I wanted a big church wedding and have God's blessing, do not do what I did?" or did she keep silent. On and if I was an American that would not drive me to vote for Obama. I would rather refrain or maybe there is another choice.
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Suspenseful, I am a Christian and I think you judge us too hard. It's not my place to forgive anyone for anything that was not done to me directly. Personally, I don't judge those who choose to live in committed relationships without getting married but I doubt the family discussion you inquired about took place. I would imagine that the same abstinence only doctrine continues to be the only way to live in that family since it's still so popular with Palin publicallyl.
• United States
14 Sep 08
i think that every person is allowed to change their mind. and while i think abstinence is the best thing you're never going to get it. and forcing that upon people is ridiculous. the only thing you can do is educate kids on the best ways to protect themselves and let them make their own decisions.
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
15 Sep 08
I agree, Medney. Keeping someone ignorant is the worst possible thing you can do to them. This is a free country and, while there probably are many parents who do not want their children to learn about subjects such as these, there are also many parents who do so the option should remain open, with the ability to opt out for those who object.
@ladygator (3469)
• United States
14 Sep 08
I see what you are saying as far as this goes. It makes it a bit tough to believe in what she says. But in my experiance a problem arrises when we talk about people and what they have done in the past. That was a lot of years ago and I am sure that she has lived every bit of the hard roads that come with having a child at such a young age. with this experiance of hers she knows more than most how important abstinence is. You learn from your experiances. 1988 was a long time ago and I believe that she is an advocate for this. She just happened to be a lucky one that actually stayed with her first love and went on to have more children with him. And here it is, 20 years later and they are still married. That to me is outside of the hypocritical since she is still where she planned to be. Now all the other stuff that may be questionable. The marriage to her husband right after the baby was conceived doesnt reflect to me how she will act as VP. I am looking for who she is and what her veiws have been and her actions since she has gotten in the real world. Not about how she started her family.
@spalladino (17924)
• United States
14 Sep 08
Maybe it's just me but, if I was taught abstinence only and found that I couldn't follow it to the point where I became pregnant out of wedlock, I'm fairly sure that I wouldn't promote that as a good option for my daughters. Not when there are so many other, more effective ways to deal with educating our children in this area and so many other options available depending on their circumstances.